Useful

[Flee]

Someone may think this URL is utter wank, but I find it very useful, and I have engaged in many conversations with members of this group. It goes far deeper than what can be displayed on one page.

Protect, Provide, Preside ~ Order of Man

[mynameis]

Found him after a bit of a hunt: Josh Thomas, Aussie comedian.

Josh Thomas - ABC2 Comedy Up Late

Oh man, he’s incredibly unfunny.

edit again: Found the vid from the OP pic:

Josh Thomas owns Bob Katter on Gay Mental Heath Issues

edit againanant:
okay not the exact vid but appears to be a clip from the same chat

[Flee]

@marksyzm

Yes sir! I’ll just go tie this noose in secret! Won’t bother nobody.

I feel you missed the point of me say that, or maybe you didnt as your comment is exactly what I was talking about, but i feel like your comment was sarcasm.

I have even heard women utter ‘man up’. or ‘grow a pair’ when a man expresses his feelings of dissatisfaction with something. This is what I meant. Men are told to shut up and man up, and swallow those feelings… until they bury you, and the noose comes out.

This is how I was raised. i cant recall how many times I was told to “suck it up” and “walk it off” . so much, that my wife calls me a robot. My emotions have been shut down.

TBH, I agree with most of the slides in this pic. Except the first, and one below it. Men being meant to be more resilient is not the problem. In fact, it is the solution. The getting paid more, patriarchy shit is well, just shit, but that has already been agreed.

[marksyzm]

@mynameis

Got some data to back up the claim that effeminate teen years are a large factor in suicide, or no? Talking about whataboutism…

It’s common knowledge and isn’t whataboutism because it’s about the original post. The statistics are common knowledge. Here’s some from 1998:

Suicide Attempts Among Gay and Bisexual Men: Lifetime Prevalence and Antecedents

Suicide among LGBT youth

@mynameis

Male feminist, maths checks out.

There is definitely a commonality between projection of what someone strives to be and what they turn out to be, I agree. Often they are covering up for something. Jimmy Savile really did a lot to look after them kids, after all…

@mynameis

I… agree. This isn’t about me?

It sounds like it is when you point out things like this:

@mynameis

Because nobody gives a damn about mens feelings. Women get constant affirmations but men get a handful in their lifetimes and they are precious memories.

You’re a man, right? Have to check because all I see is an avatar and you never know these days…
The guy (Josh Thomas) was merely saying there are men who don’t open up. I thought this was an old video from the 90s and was disappointed that it was current and annoyed at some of the things but I read between the lines.

So a guy can say to another guy “man up” but the connotations really should be “grow up”. I don’t think going after someone and calling them a sex pest is helping after going after his (annoying) usage of “male privilege”. Basically there’s annoying stuff here, but the point is just about suicide rates.

@Quaektem

It’s not just ‘not talking about their feelings’ that is driving men to suicide (though being told as a white man that you can’t have an opinion on most things doesn’t help), it’s the dismantling of male spaces, the removal of fathers from families (which breaks down both the sons and the fathers), the removal of the distinctly masculine purpose of protecting and providing for others, the 50 year barrage of being called toxic, predators, rapists. We are shamed for earning more because we work more hours and more dangerous, disgusting, or menial jobs. We are by default more likely to loose our homes and access to our children in divorce, we are more likely to be arrested and charged for the same crimes in comparison to women, and when found guilty have significantly harsher punishments than women.

I totally agree with this, being in a similar position to what’s mentioned. I’m the one who’s working in our house for the main part of the money at the moment, and it’s a huge pressure. Basically, everything is shit, and we all have to grow up, do the time, the work, and face our issues. Our brains are designed that way so we store everything we ever went through. If someone is bullied or raped, we carry that, and we don’t take the opportunities to actually let go of it.
We can do everything we like to try and FORGET it but it isn’t possible. Resolution has to be found, resentments like all the ones I’ve read in this thread today have to be let go of, and move on. We grow up.

[Flee]

@marksyzm

we don’t take the opportunities to actually let go of it.

yup. You have to forgive. I had a long debate with someone over this once. forgiveness is NOT about the offender. Its about the victim letting go. Forgiveness does not need to be deserved, or a reward from some form of penance. Its about letting go of the hold the event has on the victim.

[marksyzm]

@Flee

I feel you missed the point of me say that, or maybe you didnt as your comment is exactly what I was talking about, but i feel like your comment was sarcasm.

Yeah it was sarcasm - I just get annoyed when it’s said in circumstances where someone is genuinely opening up but the connotations are usually “hide your feelings, don’t get help, don’t apologise, never cry” - I think “man up” is fair, man to man. But if someone genuinely needs help and wasn’t heard for what they’ve gone through (i.e. talking about a priest that raped them through their earliest days of youth, seeing people get shot as a kid etc) it’s not that useful when the person needs genuine help.

[Flee]

Just to be clear, I wasnt expressing that to tell anyone to man up, but to note those words that are so commonly used to shut men down.

[REALITY]

@Flee

…commonly used to shut men down.

I’d disagree, I think it’s one of the best motivators for boys and men.

[Flee]

In what sense? If the listener has the correct definition of what is it to be a man, then absolutely, it can be a motivator.

The problem is that the speaker and the listener most often dont have the correct definition, and the term is used to just shut men up.

“Put your purse down, and man up…” and the like are just attacks, which in most cases, are extremely unhelpful, and possibly the type of comment that leads to suicide. Again, some will hear this, then think “Oh yeah?, ill show you!” and does a brilliant job. the other side of that coin is that he utters the same “Oh yeah?, Ill show you!”, then grabs a gun and starts shooting(others or himself).

I guess “know your audience” is the moral to the above lol.

[REALITY]

Every-time I was told it as a kid the situation gave me a very clear meaning of what it was to be a man.

[Flee]

I can agree with that, and I was the same. While i noted my emotions are shut down, I feel i am very resilient, and can weather almost any storm. My dad built me to be tough. He showed me strength. I thank him for it. I cite it as a reason for my success in life. Not all aspects of my life, though. In some areas, it has hindered me greatly.

[tricpe]

When the fuck did you get that fourth daughter, damn it!? Why haven’t the elders of teo9i been informed of this?

[mynameis]

@marksyzm

It’s common knowledge and isn’t whataboutism because it’s about the original post. The statistics are common knowledge. Here’s some from 1998:

Being gay isn’t anywhere near as stigmatised as it was, the current stats won’t show anything similar, and older men who grew up with the stigma are a factor for sure but a tiny one.
Also wikipedia for any contentious issue is worthless as a source. There’s always ideological edit fights that make the page not worth the pixels.

@marksyzm

The guy (Josh Thomas) merely saying there are men who don’t open up

No he’s not. He’s spouting feminist talking points. He’s being a soldier in a culture war.

[marksyzm]

Yeah I didn’t know or judge this based on that. I just saw a crappy bit of video footage.

[mynameis]

Here’s the damn vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZuL_2hUaoI

edit: Hey look it’s this thread in youtube comments form.

[marksyzm]

I honestly thought this was from early 2000s. I still see most stats say suicide rates are higher for gays but it does also bother me how instead of pointing out only the low points some in minority go through, there is more out there (possibly because of car crash media shite) that puts out statements like X privilege.

[Flee]

@marksyzm

suicide rates are higher for gays

You know what doesnt help those rates? other gays. Ive had a few gay friends over the years(me hanging out with them, people thought i was gay), and ive seen some wild shit. A good buddy was a total slut, but he was very clean and took all the necessary safety steps. He never hid who he was, or lied. One guy got spiteful, for whatever reason and told the community that my buddy gave him a VD… well, my buddy was excommunicated from the gay community, and eventually just left town because he was isolated, and insulted. A weaker man may have killed himself over that.

side note: gay guy = best wingman ever.

[mynameis]

Shit I’m sure the rates are even higher for lesbians given that they have, by far, the highest rates of domestic abuse.

[REALITY]

@Flee

While i noted my emotions are shut down

Emotions are so overrated.

[Flee]

often yes, i fully agree with you. I can look at things logically.

when my child is standing in front of me crying and I am thinking “why is this human leaking?”, not overrated lol